Answered Question: A Breakdown of Submarine Chiaki with Ryuseitai

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41k ~37 min

helloo what are your thoughts on submarine midori/the rest of rst because personally it was so painful to read how everyone was treating chiaki… even considering rst’s tsundere schtick to chiaki, submarine’s teasing? felt a lil bit too harsh. especially when at the start of the story they (midori/tetora) were talking abt how nice it is to have chiaki as leader again, but then they turn up on him??

my shipper lens wants to believe it’s just midori upset with chiaki’s orders and upset that he has to go away sometimes idk ive no other way to rationalize their hostility towards chiaki

Sent in June 2025, answered in December 2025. tweet link of the answer

i have A L O T of thoughts on this, because prior to supervillain’s release, i was also Extremely Confused what submarine was trying to say… until supervillain came out and answered every question and confusion i had.

i’ll try to break this down as much as possible. this is gonna be a LONG one because submarine is a complex story to understand at first glance, even after we finally got the context to ryuseitai’s tension.

THIS POST IS 7000+ WORDS LONG. it… ended up being an essay… collapses

introduction

to begin, submarine is part of the SS main story, and its main purpose is to illustrate ryuseitai and akatsuki’s SS qualifying round. ryuseitai essentially navigate through the main plot while still having their own issues to deal with. this is why submarine can’t be read on its own as a ryuseitai story, or with the sole intention of "learning about what’s happening in ryuseitai".

submarine’s purpose isn’t specifically to understand the tense times in ryuseitai’s arc, it’s to see what was happening during that tense time. and even at the time of its release in 2021, it was an extremely difficult story to understand in terms of ryuseitai’s storyline because we didn’t have the context of why ryuseitai was THIS strained, so understanding ryuseitai in submarine on its own, WITHOUT other stories, is simply not possible.

it’s also a story that doesn’t even end on a conclusion for ryuseitai per se. for an actual conclusion to what we learn in submarine, stories like supervillain and stella maris are must-reads. motor show and comet show are also EXTREMELY essential to understanding submarine, ESPECIALLY as a reminder that there is NO hatred toward chiaki, nor is submarine about retaliation or hostility. motor show is explicitly about how much tetora and chiaki care about and admire each other, for example.

i’m mentioning this because it’s the Key to understanding the strained parts in submarine. now that we have the full ES!! year 1 arc laid out, submarine acts like a peek into how ryuseitai operated during the overarching plot (whether the main plot or their own arc) even when things were really strained for them.

other things i’d like to note:

  • it’s best to separate how ryuseitai treat chiaki into their own separate entities. tetora and midori’s attitude toward chiaki isn’t a complete reflection of how ALL of ryuseitai feel about chiaki. shinobu has always been amicable with chiaki for example, and it’s a big part of how chiaki grew to unconditionally trust shinobu no matter what (and became a huge plot point in supervillain).

  • even how tetora and midori treat chiaki is NOT a tag-team against him, they also have their own separate reasons for acting that way toward him.

  • submarine is much more serious in nature, especially with the interactions between the ryuseitai members (hell, one of the jokes in the story is that this isn’t the time to make dumb jokes). for the majority of the interactions, there is no "tsundere shtick" or "teasing" etc. with how they’re speaking to each other, they are genuinely feeling confused and conflicted inside while clashing with one another.

  • submarine is a story that really dives into showing ryuseitai members’ weaknesses AND strengths. and weaknesses will tend to show genuine flaws, but in seeing their flaws we get to know their strengths and how ryuseitai make up for each others’ shortcomings (which is a very big theme for ryuseitai! they often talk about how they’re glad they balance each other’s weaknesses out with their strengths).

  • ALL of what is happening within ryuseitai is out of love for each other, even during their strained times.

  • during the strained times, there’s a recurring theme that they don’t understand where things went wrong, how did it become this way when all they wanted was to be happy together… but it’s human nature to try and find what to "blame" to understand how things went wrong, and this topic is discussed a lot throughout this part of their arc, especially in submarine.

now, i’ll start with tetora and chiaki as it’s explained very well across all the stories. but this is going to still be very long… let’s start

tetora’s attitude toward chiaki

when submarine first came out, i also didn’t fully understand why tetora was acting that way. i thought they had all agreed to follow the agency’s order and return back to the 5 of them at the end of comet show, so tetora’s attitude in submarine confused me.

i’ll be completely frank and say that i NEVER once understood it and it felt contradictory to me based on comet show and motor show, and i gave up understanding for 2 years… until supervillain came out and perfectly illustrated exactly where the actual problem lied. FROM THE VERY FIRST START WITH THE PROLOGUE.

as i’ve said, submarine does not provide context, it is a PEEK into how they were doing once things became strained. so what exactly even made things strained in the first place?

supervillain’s prologue is a look into what had happened RIGHT after comet show ended, and we learn so much:

  • firstly, tetora’s not mentally doing well, and it’s causing him to make careless mistakes. a fatal mistake he does here is accidentally genuinely punch chiaki when they were only supposed to act out a scene for a show.

  • this punch physically affects chiaki, which is indicated by how 1: panicked kanata was (kanata is almost NEVER panicked in any ryuseitai story), 2: he needed to immediately go to the infirmary for a check-up

  • just after chiaki gets punched, chiaki tries to put up a strong front and make a joke out of the situation to brighten up the mood, even though everyone’s panicked (and he himself is surely shaken up by it too, since he’s actually not that physically strong at all). and this is where things begin to snowball:

Chiaki: Fuhaha! Nagumo, you little clutz…☆

Tetora (slouched down and looking sad): ……………

Chiaki: You making a mistake in estimating distance is such a rare sight, since you’re so good at karate!
No, actually, I should’ve realized that it would hit me and dodged in time!
My reflexes didn’t react fast enough! I’m so sorry!

Tetora: Why ar—

Chiaki: Nagumo, I don’t blame you for this […]

note that chiaki interrupts tetora here, and adds in an apology (for what? HE’S the one who got punched!). he then continues to talk even more:

Nagumo, I don’t blame you for this, but you haven’t been getting much sleep lately, have you? I can see you’ve got dark eyebags.
You’re literally Ryusei Bla— Ah, um, anyway, you should take good care of yourself!
…[dialogue cut short, him saying he’ll go get a physical check-up in an energetic tone]
But before I go, I just want to say: don’t fret over it, Nagumo. I’ll be fine. Accidents like this happen all the time.
Injuries can occur even in pro-wrestling, where a script is always prepared. It’s the same when rehearsing and acting for tokusatsu shows. After all, even if it’s a play, you’re still fighting with your actual body.
You did nothing wrong, Nagumo.
Rather, and I say this again, I’m sorry I couldn’t foresee the accident to avoid it in time.

tetora points out the elephant in the room; which is that he genuinely did mess up, though.

Tetora: Why—… are you apologizing…
That was obviously all my fault. I’m the only one who made a mistake here. Actually… not just this, but everythin’ else, too.
The reason Ryuseitai got into this unnatural state—
Is all ‘cuz I was weak, isn’t it? Every single thing’s all on me.

main problem is… because tetora’s not doing mentally well, it’s covered with all the crippling self-esteem that’s been worsening, and he instead just takes ALL the blame on himself. this is what makes chiaki escalate his words even further:

No, that isn’t true at all. As I said on stage at Comet Show, I take full responsibility.
I was naïve in my foresight. Because of that, I failed to give everyone the future they wanted. I couldn’t even push the agency, the higher-ups’ demands, out of our way.
I’m the one at fault, and I’m also the one who’s weak.
So… Don’t make that sad face, Nagumo.

here’s where it becomes more obvious chiaki isn’t doing well either after comet show, but also, nothing makes him feel even worse than seeing someone he loves feeling sad, so he keeps going and going with this argument because he can’t stand to see tetora upset with himself:

Chiaki: I’m horrible for doing that. I shouldn’t ever be forgiven.
I betrayed your trust, trampled on your dreams and efforts, and hurt you.

Tetora: I’m not a single bit hurt from that, though. It’s true that I was disappointed that I had to step down as the leader, but…
That was all ‘cuz I wasn’t good enough. If this outcome’s what the higher-ups and society want, then there’s not much I can do ‘bout it.

note that tetora makes it explicitly clear that it is not the final events of comet show that he’s hurt by.

Tetora: That’s why I accept things as is. Even if I really was a li’l hurt by all’a this, the punch just now made up for it, so it’s fine.
With that, we’d have hurt each other the same amount, and we can call it even.

note again that tetora is simply giving a hypothesis that EVEN IF* he has a bit of hurt inside, then it’s been evened out through that punch, so it doesn’t matter anyway. but again, tetora is still blaming himself instead of the target chiaki is clearly telling him to blame (chiaki himself), and that makes chiaki respond again one more time until…

Chiaki: …Except, what I took from you doesn’t even compare with that one punch you threw on me.

Tetora (visibly showing anger): What’s with you? I just said that I accept the situation as it is. Yet you keep persistin’ otherwise, over and over and over again—

it escalates horribly to the point the rest of ryuseitai chime in panicked at where the discussion has gone.

from this chapter alone, we learn that:

  • chiaki and tetora are NOT mentally doing well, and they’re not coping with it well either. because they’re not mentally doing well, a clash happens between them.

  • EVEN THOUGH IT WAS TETORA’S MISTAKE, chiaki INSISTED it is all his fault, and for tetora not to take the blame because he did nothing wrong.

  • even when tetora expresses himself and clarifies a little more on how he actually feels (for example, that he isn’t upset by the comet show decision), chiaki immediately counter-argues that it still doesn’t mean it’s tetora’s fault, and he should still put all the blame on him for not having taking enough responsibility, etc.

  • chiaki’s insistence is where tetora snaps, because nothing he’s saying is getting through to chiaki. chiaki is completely ignoring his words to shut the conversation down with "it’s my fault, you did nothing wrong, don’t blame yourself, i deserved that punch and more actually, so don’t be sad nagumo" when, again, let’s not forget it is tetora’s mistake that chiaki got hurt.

the rest of supervillain continues to illustrate these aspects of their relationship, especially for chiaki, who continues to not really be doing that mentally well in the first few chapters of supervillain up until he meets with tetora, and they have their heartfelt talk.

now, i absolutely don’t think tetora is at fault here, he was clearly mentally not doing well and that’s what caused him to accidentally hit chiaki. but it is OBJECTIVELY true that even if it’s a MISTAKE, tetora hit chiaki.

so when i read this chapter when the story first came out, watching chiaki try so hard to argue against tetora that "No Actually, It Makes Perfect Sense That Happened Because I Was Too Careless And Also I Deserved That", made EVERYTHING between these two in submarine click in my head. no WONDER tetora was acting that way with chiaki! by the time submarine had happened (which was in early winter), he must’ve just given up entirely with having any conversation with chiaki because he knows it won’t go anywhere, chiaki will just make it all about how it’s HIS fault and HE should be the one to take the blame for things that TETORA is personally going through.

but at the same time, i don’t think chiaki is at fault either, he was also not doing mentally well, and he only spirals further when the people he loves aren’t doing well. but it’s objectively true that chiaki has a very awful habit to insist that the blame is all put on him whenever his beloved ones are upset or clashing with each other. he did this during the argument between midori and tetora in climax too, where he did a terrible job at defusing the situation by sacrificing himself:

Nagumo! Takamine! Sengoku! Hit me! If you have any problems, then hit me with every one of them right here, right now! Beat me up as you please!
I’ll be fine! I’m used to getting hurt! But I can’t bear to watch you fight and hurt each other!
The pain is worse than dying! It would be less painful if you just hit me instead!
I’ll take all your anxiety, your pain — everything! And then I’ll toss it all into the sun, causing a huge explosion, and we’ll then have our happy ending!

(note: to him, this was still an attempt to not interfere with their fight and to still let them grow. by taking on their negative feelings.)

submarine acts as a peek to see how tetora navigates through that frustration he has with chiaki while he has a very awful crippling self-esteem he’s trying to work through, as well as a loss of identity/purpose (especially in ryuseitai). all the while the events of submarine happen and he navigates through that too. and by this point, he’s well-aware there’s no point talking it out with chiaki because chiaki will just shut him down by saying it’s "my fault everything happened".

this frustration kind of leaks out and sort of "taints" the other feelings he has for chiaki. where he felt a lot of admiration for chiaki, he instead feels upset chiaki takes "everything he ever wanted". where he felt a lot of care for chiaki, he’s upset he can’t even express that before chiaki shuts him down again. where he felt a lot of pride and joy to be part of ryuseitai and to be the one to uphold the legacy chiaki left behind, he’s frustrated that he can’t contribute to the unit as much as he had hoped now that chiaki’s the leader and takes over everything (due to chiaki feeling like he’s responsible for everything). he’s frustrated that he wants to show he’s grown, but with how insistent chiaki is to "take away" the negative feelings from tetora, he feels pampered and treated like a little kid who needs protection (and tetora has a HUGE complex with being treated like a kid).

one note about the above though, is that tetora wasn’t just frustrated with chiaki after comet show. another person tetora was frustrated with is midori, which had a whole story for it (high and low, a story that is set between comet show and submarine, so it is a pre-submarine story). the story even started with tetora and midori having an argument (tetora visibly angry at midori), and then tetora had a whole vent about midori that was VERY TELLING that his vent comes from his low self-esteem and desperation to find a breakthrough for the dead-end ryuseitai fell into after comet show. this also led him to think that midori doesn’t care about him as much as he cares about chiaki.

this is because tetora’s self-esteem and personal issues are heavily affected by chiaki and midori THE MOST. in fact, these three tend to heavily affect each other when it comes to their mental state, as all three of them have crippling self-esteem that, during this arc, kept bleeding onto each other’s relationships. this is even mentioned in submarine, in the form of dubbing all three of them as "sensitive":

Shinobu: Tetora-kun, you’re a lot more particular about things than one would expect, huh? Like you can’t help but overthink things.

Midori: We’re all pretty sensitive people… The only ones in our unit who’re broad-minded and chill enough to get through anything are Shinobu-kun and Shinkai-senpai… the ratio is two to three…

even though high and low gives a (somewhat) conclusion for midori and tetora’s clash and ends on a (somewhat) happy note (tetora realizes midori does love and care for him, and feels a lot more relieved by the end despite the two still barely being on the same page), later on in a story that happens AFTER submarine, there’s a scene showing that tetora perceives midori and chiaki similarly when it’s in relation to himself:

(shinobu and tetora are talking. after shinobu says "-ssu" and "ossu" like tetora does, tetora says this. rough translation)

Why’d you copy my speech tone… If Midori-kun or Morisawa-senpai did the same thing, I would’ve had the urge to kill them, but if it’s Shinobu-kun or Shinkai-senpai, it can be waved off with a "cute~", so it’s an advantage.

note that he grouped both of them in here. tetora’s identity issues and self-esteem are deeply affected by midori and chiaki, so it feels like a threat if they "take away" the very few things that define "him" and who he is.

and so, it makes sense why tetora acted that way in submarine when you consider his cripping self-esteem at the time, and the way chiaki was acting around him, always talking the blame each time. in the first few chapters of submarine, there’s even a part where chiaki visibly looks sad/worried by what tetora says:

Kuro: Huh, aight. All of you (Ryuseitai) are such good boys as always, arent’cha? I heard a lotta harsh stuff happened to you guys, so it wouldn’t have been surprisin’ if it made one of ya snap a li’l.

Tetora: Ahaha, nothing’ll change by sulking, that’s all.

Chiaki: …………

but unlike supervillain prologue, he says nothing. this is my own interpretation, but i think at this point, chiaki understands if he says something like "none of it was your fault though, nagumo", tetora will get upset, so he avoids saying anything. but it still makes chiaki so sad and possibly even feel guilty that tetora is talking that way about himself, so he can’t help but feel worried.

there’s another scene to note. in nirai-kanai chapter 9, right after kanata talks about himself, chiaki suddenly brings up the topic of the agency order and how they have no choice but to move forward regardless of how unreasonable it is, and the way he talks about it annoys tetora because "that’s not something you should be saying" "it feels like you’re lecturing a spoiled kid", but he then proceeds to agree with him and it lightens up the mood enough for chiaki to feel happy and hug tetora.

now one, i think it really shows how much the agency’s order is on chiaki’s mind for him to suddenly bring up the topic. and absolutely Not for a good reason; chiaki is subconsciously distrustful of the agency after everything they did to his beloved unitmates in comet show. but two, chiaki’s also really scared and desperate. he expresses this in comet show; he’s scared to see the thing he loves be broken apart again, and in submarine, he expresses being afraid that if anything like comet show happens again, he will "no longer be himself" (i.e., it matters so much to chiaki that he keeps what matters to him safe and secure)

so this sudden discussion about the agency was not actually a lecture toward tetora, it’s to himself, but looks as though it’s to ryuseitai too. this is such a key part of tetora and chiaki’s clashes: a lot of the things chiaki says/does to cope with the situation (try to brighten up the mood and make jokes when tetora accidentally hit him, take in all the blame instead of watching his beloved unitmates suffer) end up inadvertently upsetting tetora, because sadly, those actions are shutting tetora out from working on these issues with him and ryuseitai… as a TEAM.

okay, this is the final part. teamwork and clear communication. so important in submarine, considering chiaki’s order is to be away from ryuseitai every once in a while. so important because tetora wouldn’t stop mentioning it in submarine. tetora Fucking Loves Teamwork, and it’s because of ryuseitai’s MOTTO and how ryuseitai operates that he loves it so much. "all for one, one for all". it’s his favorite catchphrase in the whole world, and this motto is what got him through these tough times in ryuseitai.

when the juniors thought kanata was "taken away" by suspicious people, even though tetora was SO WORRIED and wanted to immediately "save" kanata as soon as possible, EVEN THEN he made sure to ask midori and shinobu what their thoughts on the situation was, what they should do together. and when souma appears, tetora keeps trying to fight back against him as a team, which midori was like "noo don’t involve me in this aaa".

this is the exact opposite of chiaki, who has a tendency to do things on his own, and although he says they’ll work as a team (saying the ryuseitai motto himself as well), he ends up putting ALL RESPONSIBILITY ON HIMSELF TO DO ALONE. like how he refused to let tetora take even an ounce of the blame when it came to anything that happened in comet show, not even an accidental punch. and so, i’ll mention One Last important line that makes more sense with all this context:

Kuro: Haha, you Ryuseitai kiddos are as energetic as ever, huh?

Tetora (smiling): That’s my only strong point, after all! I got bucket loads of energy in me~!
(whispering, now with a visible frown) ……It’s only ‘cuz Morisawa-senpai returned back to being the leader again, so we’ve got a lotta time to spare now that he takes care of everythin’ for us involving the unit.

this, on first glance, seems to sound as if tetora is upset about the leadership, and about no longer being the leader. but in reality, when you put into perspective that tetora would NOT stop mentioning teamwork in this story, it becomes more clear that the focus point of his frowning is on "now that he takes cares of everything for us involving the unit".

tetora Doesn’t Want That, but he has no choice but to accept that right now because talking it out goes nowhere and he doesn’t wanna argue with chiaki anyway. that’s something he stated in comet show; he doesn’t want to argue against him and he much prefers hero stories where they all get along rather than clash, and in submarine; he avoids escalating a discussion with chiaki by saying he doesn’t wanna argue.

i hope that clears up as much of tetora’s part as possible. i can technically go on, but i think this is a good amount to explain the complexities of his feelings, especially if you ever choose to re-read the stories with this extra perspective…!

for stories i suggest re-reading: motor show expresses how pure the two’s feelings are for each other, submarine shows how muddied those pure feelings got because… Why? they don’t truly get it but it’s happening. and then supervillain acts as the perfect context provider and conclusion to all that, where they finally clear through all those conflicted feelings because they know for sure: we love and care for each other, and we want the best for our unit. wildland is amazing as well since tetora goes back on his initial feelings as a first year in ryuseitai because of a junior who admires him.

bonus story! i took so long with this answer that overflow came out, but fortunately a lot of tetora’s parts in the story summarize even more about tetora’s journey in ryuseitai, his feelings toward chiaki, and his perception of what a hero is! but i’ll mainly show the epilogue:

“Up ‘til now, I thought that a hero is ‘someone who is perfectly strong in every way,’ but… After a lotta things happened, I’ve now come to think of it as ‘someone who stands back up every time, no matter how weak they may be’.”
“Whenever I stumbled, I could get back up each time ‘cuz of everyone’s cheers, and that’s exactly why I get to convey my ‘thank you’ to everyone with my head held high today, too.”

“The marks of Ryusei Black’s efforts aren’t just the stage, songs, and dance — I’ve grown to understand the proof of it is also within everyone’s smiles, and that realization made me real happy!”
“From now on too, I might keep stumblin’ several times and fail to do things perfectly—”
“But even if it takes me a long time, I’m gonna make sure to move forward one step at a time! So I’d be thrilled if everyone would continue to support us as Ryuseitai!”

i’ll just drop my tweets related to this:

every time i read this i get so emotional… for the longest time tetora felt so inferior to chiaki and felt like a failure of a successor because he thought chiaki’s "perfect" in every way… it warped his perception of his capabilities and thought he could never reach his level

tetora is the one who needed to hear most about chiaki’s backstory and truly understand that chiaki was never that perfect hero, ever. and it’s by learning about it that he realized being a "true hero" is attainable, he CAN be equals to chiaki, in fact he could even SURPASS him!!

i love how it’s conveyed in overflow because tetora talks about all of this in relation to himself and his own efforts and journey

he realized the concept of a hero fit him all along, from day 1. all because he learned the true backstory of the first hero in this world

again, this goes back to the feelings of inadequacy tetora felt and then vented out on chiaki (and midori), and why the heartfelt talk between chiaki and tetora in supervillain was the key to clearing off so much of tetora’s confusion about the situation, chiaki, and himself.

all along, tetora was also perfectly fitting of the concept of a hero, because heroes aren’t perfect human beings (what he thought chiaki was and compared his "empty self" to), but a person who stands back up no matter the failures! but since submarine was during the time he was so heavily shut out from talking to chiaki, his confusion, frustrations, jealousy and self-loathing only festered more until he could finally talk to chiaki face-to-face in supervillain.

midori’s attitude toward chiaki

this is where it gets waaay more complicated. when submarine first came out, i did sort of understand why midori was acting that way, or at least i could infer where it’s coming from, as midori’s feelings toward chiaki really ring home to me…

but because midori’s a messy person who’s bad at communicating his feelings, and chiaki is just as much of a messy person who’s bad at communicating his feelings, there are A Lot of layers to this.

midori’s thoughts on chiaki being the leader again

i’ll address what you mentioned, which i assume is this part:

Tetora: (whispering) ……It’s only ‘cuz Morisawa-senpai returned back to being the leader again, so we’ve got a lotta time to spare now that he takes care of everythin’ for us involving the unit.

Midori: (whispering) It’s better this way, now we can relax at least… I don’t wanna work hard…

Shinobu: ? What are you two whispering to each other about? Let me take part, too!

Midori: Nu-uh… I refuse to let anything corrupt you… I’ll be the one to protect you, Shinobu-kun…

Shinobu: Why have you been acting so odd lately, Midori-kun!?

this part has less to do with chiaki, and more to do with tetora and the burdens the juniors had to deal with up until this point. note that he’s only whispering this to tetora, and tries to deflect shinobu from joining the conversation.

i’d almost argue that this conversation was a "foreshadow" that tetora and midori were going to get a story for their own conflicts, because a year later high and low came out in 2022, and covered SO MUCH about the two (midori wishing tetora and chiaki wouldn’t keep flinging themselves at a wall while things are rough in ryuseitai, tetora feeling frustrated with how midori barely tries hard for the unit) while shinobu was explicitly not part of any of these conversations (just like how midori tried to move him away from the conversation here). so honestly this is just one big "yeah don’t worry about it in regards to submarine chiaki".

bonus: again, i took so long answering this that we got a new story that gives more context: overflow!

Midori: You know… If Morisawa-senpai’s that happy with the commander position, why don’t we go back to the way we used to do things in Ryuseitai?
At the very least, it’d save me from dealing with my eventual next turn as leader…

after tropical happened with midori’s turn as the leader, midori occasionally expresses the stress and exhaustion of being the leader (happens again in stella maris). that’s all the more why i think this aspect of midori responding with "it’s better this way" and what not is mostly just to do with his own arc and his own struggles with taking up a big role and having a lot of burdens placed on him.

so in submarine, he tries to express a similar sentiment to tetora as well, since he watched tetora struggle and be stressed by leader stuff for SO MANY MONTHS, and he himself also felt burdened by the workload that the three of them had to take on without the seniors around as much.

but interestingly, the topic came up twice when it was chiaki as the leader, so my own personal interpretation is that this comes back to how midori really does enjoy chiaki at the center, and to some extent, he feels the most "relaxed" or even at home when chiaki is the one in charge, since midori heavily treasures their first year together back in yumenosaki (and that was 95% chiaki dragging him all over the place to do hundreds of things). so chiaki also being excited and happy to be the leader in overflow made him be blunt enough to go "okay then why not we just go back to how we used to do things". AGAIN my own personal interpretation, but i feel it adds up with how he behaves when it comes to chiaki, as well as the things he’s told him before (like in climax, "Please shine in your own way, as you always have — within the center of everyone. I never really disliked seeing that… Morisawa-senpai.")

midori toward chiaki throughout the story

december 2025 edit: ok i’ll admit that the midori/chiaki aspect of submarine was where i felt very stumped with how to approach this ask because they’re just so complex and a mess of emotions all over, that isn’t 100% explicitly laid out the same way it was with tetora/chiaki 😭😭😭

every time i try to sit down and write it, i just don’t even know where to begin… at least tetora/chiaki is like, okay it goes comet show -> submarine -> supervillain! but with midori and chiaki it’s like you have to zoom back and forth between several stories just to link it all together, so i just freeze up with how to begin. to be clear, i don’t mind that i was asked to answer this, but i wanted to be honest with why i took so long answering 😭 these two are THAT much of a mess (and i love them for it)

i don’t really want to delay this ask any further, so i’ve decided a different way to go about this, which is to link my decently coherent submarine threads on the two. after supervillain came out, i spent a chunk of time going back on submarine and thinking "Ohhh this is why midori and chiaki have conversations like this, it all adds up", so i have plenty i can share!

as i mentioned in my introduction notes, this story is much more serious in nature, and there is no "tsundere" act here; these are genuine frustrations and confusions midori is having inside of him.

a story that delves way deeper into this is high and low, which in my personal opinion is the Best story to understand midori’s psyche. i answered an ask about high and low here, that sort of summarizes what makes it so good for midori (and it relates back to chiaki and their relationship to an extent. i absolutely recommend reading this ask if midori’s side still doesn’t fully make sense!)

alright, here it is! my decently coherent submarine threads for these two:

this is an old thread that was posted while supervillain event was still happening, and i no longer agree with everything i say here, but the general statement is still how i perceive this aspect of submarine midori/chiaki. particularly this: "and i feel the reason for that is because chiaki never tells him anything, midori learnt a lot about him on his own".

this is still true; a huge chunk of the information that leads to midori showing his care toward chiaki is information he learned by himself, through observation or experience (or looking him up online), with only a few other things being from chiaki himself personally expressing to midori. the early chapters of supervillain further shows these frustrations midori has, including his mini talk.

chiaki toward midori throughout the story

just as much as midori has frustrations toward chiaki, chiaki also has his own confusions and frustrations he’s trying to sort through, and when it’s not about starpro/the higher-ups (or where things went wrong in ryuseitai), the frustrations most especially have to do with midori, and i mean specifically midori.

so, here are other threads that are more focused on chiaki’s feelings!

in the thread, i talk about chiaki’s upset feelings more, and how i’m curious to see where it’s headed. then stella maris comes out later, and i QRT that thread with these thoughts: "oh yeah i almost forgot about this thread…. wow stella maris shed more light on this, it really WAS that we were missing context clues on chiaki’s side. it’s clearly revealed that chiaki has been very paranoid over the things midori says to him…"

THOUGH PLEASE NOTE that the above thread was my own musings trying to work out what this could mean, and aren’t my final thoughts. i actually changed my mind on some interpretations since then. BUT i still stand by the fact that yeah, those scenes in submarine were foreshadowing that we were going to see more of chiaki visibly expressing when he’s upset with something midori says!

for more musings related to this aspect, here’s some interesting thoughts @RenaiPro shared in relation to this:

click here for the extra musings!!


While I can see it as them “hurting” each other as for Chiaki it’s him hearing something he’d see as cruel from someone he cares so much for in a “after all this time my feelings aren’t getting through? they aren’t being requited” while for Midori it’s the feeling of “so I’m still not seen as reliable, as an equal”, I think that perhaps “disappointment” is a lot more accurate?

Like the disappointment of it feeling like all the efforts you’ve made, all you’ve done isn’t being properly seen by the one whose attention you’re seeking?

The comments still sting, but maybe it’s the disappointment of it seeming like there’s no progress, like things are stagnating that’s more at the forefront

After all, we’ve seen and heard Chiaki talk about how many hopes and wishes he places on Midori and how much special care he places on Midori in particular. So for him to hear those comments from Midori, even though he knows Midori has grown to love and treasure Ryuseitai so much, perhaps it’s the feeling of Chiaki himself not feeling as loved as the group as a whole

Meanwhile for Midori we’ve already seen how much he LOVES Ryuseitai and how he feels so indebted to Chiaki for bringing him into this world. And for Repayfes he specifically told Chiaki to watch his transformation, his growth. So for Chiaki to make comments like that, Midori likely feels like “didn’t I tell you I would transform, that I would grow into someone better, more reliable? so why does it seem like you STILL don’t believe in me after all this time?”

It’s these two knuckleheads who are both caught up in their own insecurities and the complexity of their own feelings and the stress of a bullshit situation [submarine’s main plot, the tension brought upon ryuseitai because of their agency, and the dire states in supervillain] that makes them not think things through before saying whatever, not realizing how they would be taken by the other

conclusion to midori/chiaki

okay i know that was a Lot, so if NOTHING ELSE i want one thing to be clear:

midori and chiaki keep misunderstanding each other over and over again holy shit

and the best scene that shows this is in submarine:

note that midori didn’t say ANYTHING mean here. if anything this whole part shows how much he understands chiaki: he’s NOT just some dumbass hot-blooded hero, and he has been observing chiaki long enough to know that he’s actually sensitive at heart. chiaki even shows how happy he is to be understood as such! like yeah, i am! wow, i’m so happy you noticed! yet, midori expresses these thoughts by mentioning something chiaki is very sensitive about: his glasses self.

and so, he gets anxious, thinking he’s being insulted. hilariously, by feeling anxious over midori’s nonchalant comment, he proves that he really is sensitive like midori said. but most of all, midori in 2023 ends up getting an autumn line that goes like this:

which indicates something important… midori never once mentioned glasses to insult chiaki, he mentioned it because midori himself is fixated on the sight of chiaki wearing them when reading! in a GOOD way! but it completely went over chiaki’s head (since he has a complexity about glasses), and further festered those anxious feelings he has when it comes to midori’s comments at him.

that’s sort of what submarine focuses a lot on for chiaki’s feelings toward midori, which is then explored in stories set after it (namely stella maris!).

submarine explores all the different kinds of ways chiaki feels anxious when it comes to midori, whether it’s when midori objectively says something unnecessarily mean (saying he wouldn’t feel emotionally hurt if he hit chiaki) or not at all (just casually mentioning chiaki with glasses). and of course, it explores the changes in their relationship since their conversation in comet show!

kanata’s attitude toward chiaki

kanata isn’t shown to be frustrated with chiaki much in submarine, but there is one particular line from kanata that had confused me back in the day, so i’ll at least discuss that.

Kanata: hmm… i think everyone here knows that i am worshiped as a God in my Hometown, but—

Shinobu: Huh!? This is the first time I’m hearing this, though!?

Kanata: eh? did i not Tell you about it properly?

Tetora: I mean, you did tell us a story before, but it all sounded like some kinda folk tale. I thought you were just quoting a bunch of tokusatsu shows or somethin’ random like that.

Shinobu: Ehhh…? God? What do you mean…?

Midori: I remember hearing you say some stuff like that, though… But I just thought it was another one of those “our seniors are talking about something stupid again” moments, and didn’t really listen properly.

Kanata: gosh… this is because chiaki always talks about Dumb stuff. please learn to do better.

Chiaki: Ah, um, okay. I guess the blame is once again on me for this too, huh.

i’ll be honest and say i don’t know if i can give an adequate answer for this one, but i want to try anyway because the conclusion i personally reached made the most sense to me.

this part was in relation to how kanata talked about chiaki’s past in meteor impact. back in meteor impact, when chiaki learns that kanata "told the juniors about the past", chiaki freaks out, but kanata clarifies that he made sure to exaggerate the story and kept what chiaki wouldn’t want the juniors to know as a secret.

personally, i think this is a case of kanata realizing he picked up a bad habit from chiaki, and expressed that frustration by telling chiaki to reflect on himself. i think in essence, it’s a bluntly written scene to express that many of ryuseitai’s habits/behaviors right now has a lot to do with how chiaki himself fostered them, but since so much of the blame is suddenly being poured on chiaki at a higher density post-comet show clash (i.e. supervillain prologue), chiaki is also starting to actually "notice" it and realize this blame is coming back to him. submarine happens after the clash with tetora and chiaki where he kept going "put all the blame on me", so these are also, in a way, the side-effects of chiaki insisting on this in ryuseitai.

i don’t know how to explain this clearly but i think it’s sort of meant to be a… critical? way to break down ryuseitai: it is because of chiaki that many of them have certain mindsets and habits, but this inevitably means that it can include bad ones, such as hiding the truth from the juniors by saying "stupid things", which you could argue kanata picked up as a defensive mechanism from chiaki out of fear of admitting the truth that he’s seen as a god (something "monstrous") to the juniors.

but submarine, at its core, is a lot about how it’s because of chiaki and what he believes in that each ryuseitai member takes certain decisions, from the way tetora chooses to die on the hill that it’s "all for one, one for all", to shinobu contacting chiaki and trying to rely on him because "ryuseitai is all about making up for each other’s shortcomings", to how kanata is happy he got to relieve the locals from the anxiety/fear of ES by performing a peaceful live show (chiaki always would say "peace is number one!"), to even midori’s silly moments and him reminiscing on this being "just like the ryuseitai he loves". and all these decisions, heavily inspired and fostered by chiaki, were for the best!

also, chiaki does end up "learning to do better" in supervillain, where he spills everything about his "pathetic, cowardly" past to tetora, and even a conversation like this happens:

Tetora: Mm… It’s very different from what I’ve heard from Shinkai-senpai. From his point of view, Taichou was a super cool hero from the beginning to the end.
I had no idea about how you were “before transformation”.

Chiaki: The reason he never told you about it is likely all my fault.
Ryuseitai is indeed the oldest idol unit in Yumenosaki Academy. It’s a veteran powerhouse with history and tradition.
But the ideal Ryuseitai that everyone loves and the agency wants is something that I forcibly created in my generation.
A dream that a bullied, cowardly tokusatsu nerd dreamed of, that just so happened to become a reality.

(which, in my opinion, chiaki is being a little too harsh on himself here, but it goes back to how chiaki recognizes that it’s because he refused to ever let the juniors know about his weak self that they got the wrong about who he is as a person, as well as why kanata ended up never really saying anything about their past to the juniors back in meteor impact.)

thread of more musings on how a core theme of submarine is the joint goal ryuseitai has, particularly chiaki and kanata. in this thread i say that "chiaki is the talker and microphone, but kanata is the person who puts those words into practice", but i want to amend this and say that this extends to the entirety of ryuseitai: they are all people who put chiaki’s words into practice, and submarine shows that throughout. in the end, chiaki is the core point of what drives them to take certain actions, as the very person (hero) who inspired and encouraged them to be heroes as well!

chiaki in submarine

submarine chiaki is actually one of my top favorite stories for him. even when i was so confused by why he was treated that way, i loved how the story showcased how clever and quick-witted he is, despite how worried he made me feel with some of his scenes. after understanding the context behind the strained air in submarine, i loved it EVEN MORE. this story is truly The Perfect Mix of every flaw chiaki possesses, but also every single one of his strengths (namely: his efforts and devotion to ryuseitai making the rest of the members spread their wings out to show their own strengths in this story!)

i most especially love that submarine explores that chiaki is becoming rebellious due to what the agency had done to his unit. it’s because he became less trustful of them after the problems they had caused to ryuseitai in comet show, that he was able to quickly figure out something was not right in submarine.

bonus random musings of how stella maris further proves his analytical side is exactly his forte, the very thing submarine focused on!

and my thoughts on submarine after re-reading it post-supervillain’s release.

and lastly, CHIAKI AND HIS OVERTHINKING BRAIN GO HAND-IN-HAND AND THAT’S OKAY. that’s what makes him who he is, and that was never ever the problem about him 🥰

and a chart to summarize the ryuseitai aspects that submarine focuses on!

final conclusion

i know that after the tetora/chiaki part, this just turned into me linking various threads of mine but AHHHH… i know how difficult submarine can be to digest, so i want to help with that, but it ended up being just as difficult to lay it all out… this story is just jampacked with so much, but it also demands SO much from you to actually really put everything together and read all the stories.

so once again, i absolutely recommend:

  • re-reading submarine with as much of these things in mind.

  • as well as reading supervillain right after! or before. either work!

  • tropical, wildland and overflow are all much easier stories to digest and don’t demand a lot to get through them, and may help with certain random things about the characters too! if you only have time for one of them, PLEASE MAKE IT OVERFLOW (INCLUDING THE SONG AND MV). IT GENUINELY LAYS OUT EVERYTHING SO EXPLICITLY.

  • stella maris is INCREDIBLE at basically doing submarine’s whole "each member thrives in a certain area and balances out each other", but with a less tense plot. still a bit of a chunky read though, so i at least recommend the story highlights!!

thank you for asking, and if you’d really like to learn more or there were any confusions, please DM me as i think i’d have an easier time diving deeper into this if it were a conversation!!